I saw it in the cinema, once, about twenty years ago. I've never watched it since and remember it with horror - Herzog's face when he is listening to the audio of Treadwell and his girlfriends death.
Its true we tend to deceive ourselves. Treadwell was living in a very dangerous fantasy world. But we also mediate our reality through images, which is not exactly the same thing in all cases. It is when Disney tends to be that mediator through which we understand wild animals. I remember reading in the New Yorker about a guy who collected wild animals in his Bronx apartment. He was caught when he went to hospital with some bad bites. When the police took him away, he said, 'I want the animals to interact like in the Jungle Book.' I saw a gut wrenching video on facebook over the weekend - a baboon had stolen a lion cub, taken it up a tree and is grooming it. It's not absolutely clear what's coming, except for that, when the lion cub tries to move it away, the baboon won't let it move around. It's clear, as some commentators observed, that the baboon was going to kill and eat the lion cub. The 'grooming' was actually cleaning it up before consumption. But nearly all the commentators reacted to the reel by saying 'Samba!' He's going to make it the King of the Jungle! One commentator even mentioned with glee that everyone was reminded of the Lion King. Of course you could say that my reaction of being sickened and sad for the lion cub was equally anthropomorphic projection - my thought was precisely, no wonder CS Lewis makes a gorilla the anti-Christ! We may know nature is red in tooth and claw, but we do not normally see it close up in action.
Thanks for reading! Yes, we’ve seen many reports of people thinking they can befriend wild animals. The urge for people to take photos and say, “Awwwww” blinds them. Treadwell played a trick on himself far too well.
In the one I recall reading in the New Yorker, he had many animals. Most seemed afraid of the big cats, but Tiger Man said he wanted them to 'interact like in the Jungle Book.'
In your and Mike's interpretation, Grizzly Guy is somewhat different, because he is performative about it. He wants people to watch him loving on the bears.
Yes—there’s definitely a performative aspect of it. But I also believe the guy was sincere in his thinking that he could live among wild animals. Thanks for the link!
In the main I agree with almost all of this, but I have a minor quibble with Herzog's limited take on the nature of wild nature.
I watched the excellent Grizzly Man twice, once before having a close encounter with a momma grizzly and once afterward. The second time I was riveted because I understood what Treadwell loved about them, even if he was deluded and projecting.
It's true you cannot be friends with a wild bear. However, I will go to my grave knowing you can win a bear's respect. Making a 300 pound momma grizzly who's interested in taking your food respect you is one of the most intense and rewarding experiences a human can have. You can communicate with a bear in a way that you can't with a mountain lion or a wolf, which I think is why many cultures regarded bears as a close relation to humans.
Just a quibble, but bears know respect for other, larger bears and can feel it even for a human who stands his or her ground. If Herzog found they were bored and indifferent, he may be unable to consider that to a 1000 pound bear during salmon season there is nothing particularly interesting about either Treadwell or Herzog.
Thank you for reading and for the thoughtful response. Yes, I can appreciate what Treadwell admired in them.
You’ve got me thinking and the more I think, the more I wonder if the issue comes down to the fact that we don’t really have language to describe interactions with animals or what animals actually process. To say a bear “respects” someone is to use a word that’s beyond a bear’s experience—but what else can we do? When I read your response, I knew exactly what you meant by “respect,” but that’s also putting a human emotion onto an animal. (And then again, how else are we supposed to talk about it? We can’t invent new words – I mean, we can, but you know what I mean.)
That’s a whole avenue I never considered. Thanks for responding.
I think what you say is even larger than human-animal relations. In my view, words are crude tools at best and at the end of the day we can only muddle through and hope we share a common understanding. I mean if a guy named Bill says he 'respects' Sally, and someone else named Amy says she 'respects' John, are they saying the same thing? Who knows? We can reasonably infer they mean something similar, but I think words that convey feeling are impossible to pin down exactly. Further, what if Amy is rolling her eyes when she says it? Words are even clumsier when trying to talk about a mystical experience.
I didn't want to presume you might want to read about my encounter, which lasted hours and involved an unusual neurological phenomenon, but here it is in case you find time. In the second paragraph I already admit that words can't do it justice.
Very different experience than Treadwell's. I'd never thought much about bears before that day in 2022 however I think about them every day since. When I first spotted them they hadn't detected me yet and they were playing! Was momma feeling the same kind of joy a human mother feels playing with her child? Can't prove it with words however I don't doubt that it would be quite similar in many ways.
Yes—words are inexact but all we have. I’ve saved your essay and look forward to reading it. (I don’t want to skim it on my phone, so I’ll read it when I set aside quality time.) Thanks again for reading and commenting.
I wrote about this documentary recently myself. I really enjoyed your thoughts on it. It added to my own perspective - the point of all good criticism. Love the historical tidbits you added.
I am surprised to realise that I never watched this more than once but 20 years later it still really sticks with me. For some reason the strongest memories are Treadwell when the fox dies, and why did Werner listen to the audio recording!
Great short piece. Sympathy while shaking one’s head is right—I don’t think I’ve ever been as frustrated with someone I nevertheless wished well as I was watching Treadwell in this movie. He came right up to the edge of being a holy fool but didn’t quite make it.
I saw it in the cinema, once, about twenty years ago. I've never watched it since and remember it with horror - Herzog's face when he is listening to the audio of Treadwell and his girlfriends death.
Its true we tend to deceive ourselves. Treadwell was living in a very dangerous fantasy world. But we also mediate our reality through images, which is not exactly the same thing in all cases. It is when Disney tends to be that mediator through which we understand wild animals. I remember reading in the New Yorker about a guy who collected wild animals in his Bronx apartment. He was caught when he went to hospital with some bad bites. When the police took him away, he said, 'I want the animals to interact like in the Jungle Book.' I saw a gut wrenching video on facebook over the weekend - a baboon had stolen a lion cub, taken it up a tree and is grooming it. It's not absolutely clear what's coming, except for that, when the lion cub tries to move it away, the baboon won't let it move around. It's clear, as some commentators observed, that the baboon was going to kill and eat the lion cub. The 'grooming' was actually cleaning it up before consumption. But nearly all the commentators reacted to the reel by saying 'Samba!' He's going to make it the King of the Jungle! One commentator even mentioned with glee that everyone was reminded of the Lion King. Of course you could say that my reaction of being sickened and sad for the lion cub was equally anthropomorphic projection - my thought was precisely, no wonder CS Lewis makes a gorilla the anti-Christ! We may know nature is red in tooth and claw, but we do not normally see it close up in action.
Most of us have fantasies That are less overtly ridiculous but equally tragic.
Very true.
Thanks for reading! Yes, we’ve seen many reports of people thinking they can befriend wild animals. The urge for people to take photos and say, “Awwwww” blinds them. Treadwell played a trick on himself far too well.
In this report, the man becomes known as 'Tiger Man'
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/18/nyregion/ming-tiger-harlem-nyc.html
In the one I recall reading in the New Yorker, he had many animals. Most seemed afraid of the big cats, but Tiger Man said he wanted them to 'interact like in the Jungle Book.'
In your and Mike's interpretation, Grizzly Guy is somewhat different, because he is performative about it. He wants people to watch him loving on the bears.
Yes—there’s definitely a performative aspect of it. But I also believe the guy was sincere in his thinking that he could live among wild animals. Thanks for the link!
One of those few great films… that I can’t bear to watch twice 🐻
Excellent
In the main I agree with almost all of this, but I have a minor quibble with Herzog's limited take on the nature of wild nature.
I watched the excellent Grizzly Man twice, once before having a close encounter with a momma grizzly and once afterward. The second time I was riveted because I understood what Treadwell loved about them, even if he was deluded and projecting.
It's true you cannot be friends with a wild bear. However, I will go to my grave knowing you can win a bear's respect. Making a 300 pound momma grizzly who's interested in taking your food respect you is one of the most intense and rewarding experiences a human can have. You can communicate with a bear in a way that you can't with a mountain lion or a wolf, which I think is why many cultures regarded bears as a close relation to humans.
Just a quibble, but bears know respect for other, larger bears and can feel it even for a human who stands his or her ground. If Herzog found they were bored and indifferent, he may be unable to consider that to a 1000 pound bear during salmon season there is nothing particularly interesting about either Treadwell or Herzog.
Thank you for reading and for the thoughtful response. Yes, I can appreciate what Treadwell admired in them.
You’ve got me thinking and the more I think, the more I wonder if the issue comes down to the fact that we don’t really have language to describe interactions with animals or what animals actually process. To say a bear “respects” someone is to use a word that’s beyond a bear’s experience—but what else can we do? When I read your response, I knew exactly what you meant by “respect,” but that’s also putting a human emotion onto an animal. (And then again, how else are we supposed to talk about it? We can’t invent new words – I mean, we can, but you know what I mean.)
That’s a whole avenue I never considered. Thanks for responding.
I think what you say is even larger than human-animal relations. In my view, words are crude tools at best and at the end of the day we can only muddle through and hope we share a common understanding. I mean if a guy named Bill says he 'respects' Sally, and someone else named Amy says she 'respects' John, are they saying the same thing? Who knows? We can reasonably infer they mean something similar, but I think words that convey feeling are impossible to pin down exactly. Further, what if Amy is rolling her eyes when she says it? Words are even clumsier when trying to talk about a mystical experience.
I didn't want to presume you might want to read about my encounter, which lasted hours and involved an unusual neurological phenomenon, but here it is in case you find time. In the second paragraph I already admit that words can't do it justice.
https://silent1etters.substack.com/p/meeting-mind-mountain-and-the-momma
Very different experience than Treadwell's. I'd never thought much about bears before that day in 2022 however I think about them every day since. When I first spotted them they hadn't detected me yet and they were playing! Was momma feeling the same kind of joy a human mother feels playing with her child? Can't prove it with words however I don't doubt that it would be quite similar in many ways.
Yes—words are inexact but all we have. I’ve saved your essay and look forward to reading it. (I don’t want to skim it on my phone, so I’ll read it when I set aside quality time.) Thanks again for reading and commenting.
I wrote about this documentary recently myself. I really enjoyed your thoughts on it. It added to my own perspective - the point of all good criticism. Love the historical tidbits you added.
Thank you for reading!
Very good. I had forgotten about him. It is good to be reminded that bears are not what many people think. Ain't that right, Yogi?
I am surprised to realise that I never watched this more than once but 20 years later it still really sticks with me. For some reason the strongest memories are Treadwell when the fox dies, and why did Werner listen to the audio recording!
We on the podcast about why Herzog listens to the audio, if you’re interested. Thanks for reading!
Great short piece. Sympathy while shaking one’s head is right—I don’t think I’ve ever been as frustrated with someone I nevertheless wished well as I was watching Treadwell in this movie. He came right up to the edge of being a holy fool but didn’t quite make it.
“Holy fool”—exactly.